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Thread: A Christian Can't support Abortion

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  1. #1
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    A Christian Can't support Abortion

    I was watching the Bill Maher show today and they had Jane Fonda on. She mentioned that she has recently become a Christian and that HER god is one that supports a womens right to choice. Now there are so many problems with this that I don't even know where to start. Not only that, I am saying this as almost a "newbie" Christian as in I don't know everything there is to know about the Bible. However, I do know that the Christian God that is defined in the Bible is against abortion. Many argue that the Bible is not what the Christian God is because it has been translated into a meaningless document. How is this true when we have so many of the original scrolls? Moreever, how can one claim what God thinks if they don't have anything to base it on? For example if you say the Bible is worthless, you are a Christian, and God believes abortion is ok...then how did you come to this conclusion? The Christian God talks about how one is created before they were put in the womb. God also talks about not killing. So if you wish to be Christian and for abortion you need to rethink one of those stances. God doesn't conform to anyone.

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    "Hanoi" Jane is a disgrace to all Americans.........She should have been tried for treason in 1971......No true Vietnam Vet will ever accept her apology......

    I don't condone that vet spitting on her but I don't blame him........

    As far as the abortion issue goes there is no God that supports the murder of the innocent unborn in the womb........
    Abortion is the most barbaric act one human being can perpetrate on another.

  3. #3
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    Jane Fonda's "god" does...although being your own god is not gonna cut it.

  4. #4
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    I am not Christian

    Christians cannot support abortion? Said who? Was it Pat "I support forced abortions" Robertson?? Do some research...fundamentalists from the far right would want you to believe without questioning that Christianity is solidly against abortion. However Christian theology and history have disproven this time and time again. In fact, Christianity's supposed stance against abortion is only very recent. For hundreds of years Christianity openly supported abortion before quickening. It is a dirty little secret that the ideological masters of the Christian-Con movement hope you never find out about because it would destroy them.
    The Bible falls completely silent on the issue of abortion.
    All direct condemnations on abortion found in the New Testament were quickly discarded as irrelevant by theologians. Christianity had it's chance at condemning abortion in the Bible and choose not to!
    For hundreds of years the Vatican supported abortion rights. Even it's most celebrated saints were not only outspoken supporters but blazed a path for theology to support it.
    And in early America, it wasn't rare for abortion services to be posted on Church bulletinboards.
    Again, these are facts that the pro-life/Christian-Con movement you never find out about. They would rather have you believe in lies instead for their political agendas.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linus
    However Christian theology and history have disproven this time and time again. In fact, Christianity's supposed stance against abortion is only very recent. For hundreds of years Christianity openly supported abortion before quickening. It is a dirty little secret that the ideological masters of the Christian-Con movement hope you never find out about because it would destroy them.
    You crack me up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Linus
    The Bible falls completely silent on the issue of abortion.
    All direct condemnations on abortion found in the New Testament were quickly discarded as irrelevant by theologians. Christianity had it's chance at condemning abortion in the Bible and choose not to!
    For hundreds of years the Vatican supported abortion rights. Even it's most celebrated saints were not only outspoken supporters but blazed a path for theology to support it.
    And in early America, it wasn't rare for abortion services to be posted on Church bulletinboards.
    Again, these are facts that the pro-life/Christian-Con movement you never find out about. They would rather have you believe in lies instead for their political agendas.
    That was a nice rant that had absolutely nothing to do with anything. The essential question is not what various religous leaders have said about the issue, but what the Bible says about the issue.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    You crack me up.
    I see...a lack of substance on your behalf. Anything to fill the void after a rather damning debunk on the thread I suppose. A very typical tactic on your behalf and I would not expect more.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    That was a nice rant that had absolutely nothing to do with anything. The essential question is not what various religous leaders have said about the issue, but what the Bible says about the issue.
    Apparently I spoke well past your head...not my fault. Any ways...
    The Bible falls silent on the issue of abortion. You couldn't find me a verse that directly condemns abortion if your life counted on it. And if the Bible is silent then what about theologians? Once again...nothing.
    Keep "cracking up"...I suppose it is the only thing you can do.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linus
    I see...a lack of substance on your behalf. Anything to fill the void after a rather damning debunk on the thread I suppose. A very typical tactic on your behalf and I would not expect more.
    This coming from the person that makes insane claims without providing evidence. Atleast provide some when asked!

    Quote Originally Posted by Linus The "not a Christian"
    The Bible falls silent on the issue of abortion. You couldn't find me a verse that directly condemns abortion if your life counted on it. And if the Bible is silent then what about theologians? Once again...nothing.
    I guess the many quotes I posted don't count then huh? Sure it doesn't say "abortion is wrong"...however if you believe in the Bible you believe that it provides an answer to this question. And it does...as provided earlier.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linus
    Apparently I spoke well past your head...not my fault. Any ways...
    The Bible falls silent on the issue of abortion. You couldn't find me a verse that dirour life coectly condemns abortion if yunted on it. And if the Bible is silent then what about theologians? Once again...nothing.
    Keep "cracking up"...I suppose it is the only thing you can do.
    Very well, I accept your challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah 1:4-5
    Now the word of the Lord came to me saying, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."
    This verse seems to point out that Jeremiah was more than simply a "product of conception." He was a product of the Creator, formed in the womb by Him in the same manner that Adam was formed out of the dust and in the image of the maker.

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    lol Linus...You provide no proof for this.

    However the Bible does say "I create you before I placed you in the womb"...this would imply that God created you before you are even conceived. Now He also talked about how you can't kill an innocent person. Maybe you should read up a little bit about what the Bible says on abortion. Christians are supposed to believe in the Bible as it is the Word of God. You are supposed to be able to figure out anything that you have question on in the Bible (such as abortion, slavery, homosexuals etc..).

    The Bible tells us God is involved in our creation from the womb:

    "Did not He who made me in the womb make him, And the same one fashion us in the womb? (Job 31:15)

    Yet Thou art He who didst bring me forth from the womb; Thou didst make me trust when upon my mother's breasts. Upon Thee I was cast from birth; Thou hast been my God from my mother's womb. (Psalms 22:9-10)

    For Thou didst form my inward parts; Thou didst weave me in my mother's womb. I will give thanks to Thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Thy works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from Thee, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth. Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Thy book they were all written, The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them. (Psalms 139:13-16)

    Thus says the LORD who made you And formed you from the womb, who will help you, `Do not fear, O Jacob My servant; And you Jeshurun whom I have chosen. (Isaiah 44:2)

    Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone, (Isaiah 44:24)
    Then Exodus says the following:
    Quote Originally Posted by God
    If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman's husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life
    Not that hard to figure out dude...What is your proof?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linus
    I am not Christian
    It shows

    by the way, only the creator of life can take it away according to the Bible.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steeeeve
    It shows
    Thanks, Christianity worships a blood thirsty God who is too wicked and morally bankrupt to worship. It is below me and I can not take authority from such a moral midget.



    Quote Originally Posted by Steeeeve
    by the way, only the creator of life can take it away according to the Bible.
    According to Stalin, only your caretaker, the USSR, can take away your life.
    God has alot in common with dictators. And often the apologists for dictators have alot in common with apologists such as yourself.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steeeeve View Post
    It shows

    by the way, only the creator of life can take it away according to the Bible.
    Thanks for your strong opposition to capital punishment.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steeeeve
    lol Linus...You provide no proof for this.
    Sigh...for the ill informed who understand nothing about their religion.
    http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_hist.htm



    Quote Originally Posted by Steeeeve
    “However the Bible does say "I create you before I placed you in the womb"...this would imply that God created you before you are even conceived.”
    So? God also says he made you out of dirt and then supernaturally lifting the dirt from the ground into the woman’s uterus. Oh well, I suppose it is all beliefs no matter how silly it sounds.



    Quote Originally Posted by Steeeeve
    “Now He also talked about how you can't kill an innocent person.”
    I have read the Bible myself…never found such a verse anywhere. Then again I suppose that depends on your definition of “innocent”, considering God sponsored the slaughter of non-Jews, disobedient children, people based upon their ethnic origin and etc.. And also person.
    The burden of proof would be for you to prove that God applies this to fetuses.



    Quote Originally Posted by Steeeeve
    “Maybe you should read up a little bit about what the Bible says on abortion.”
    It is impossible to read something that can’t be found.



    Quote Originally Posted by Steeeeve
    Then Exodus says the following:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by God
    If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman's husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life
    You mean Exodus 21:22-23 and you are using a contemporary translation of it…not tradition. The traditional interpretation of this text, which even rabbinical scholars accepted for thousands of years, is this: if a man hurts a woman enough to cause a miscarriage, he reciprocates according to how much injury he caused her, i.e., an eye for an eye, etc. However, if the miscarriage resulted in no injury to the woman, then all the assailant had to pay was a monetary fine. The fact that the Bible does not equate the assailant's life with the stillborn's life is proof that the Bible does not count the fetus as a person. Further more we should have found replications of your contemporary translation since the copying of laws in the Middle East was widespread. Instead, the Assyrians, Hittites, Sumerians, Babylonians, Hammurapi and Eshnunna all have similar laws that go according to the traditional interpretation of it.
    Lastly, if a woman gave birth “prematurely” back in Biblical ages it would have resulted in the birth of a stillborn. Saving premature babies is an achievement of modern science. Not God.



    “Not that hard to figure out dude...What is your proof?”
    If it isn’t so hard then why haven’t you found it yet? I am still waiting and you becoming cocky is not helping you.

  14. #14
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    You quote as evidence a site that doesn't provide an Bible versuses? Great proof :-/ Not only that but it is RELIGIOUSTOLERANCE.ORG!! I mean really. How anti-christian can you get? The fact that you copied your whole arguement from this website says enough about you.

    Your biased website states very few examples and even goes as far as to say Exodus is translated wrong. Your website is just false on this and I don't know where they got their BS from.

    And if men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart, and yet no harm follow, he shall be surely fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if any harm follow, then thou shalt give life for life
    That is what it said. Now your website gives a false translation to this. It clearly is talking about if the unborn is harmed.

    Not to mention the numerous other quotes I gave you about how a person (in the Christian faith) is formed before conception! This shows that God has already created you. God also talks about how you can't kill a person he created. This is an easy concept to follow.

    I suggest if you wish to learn what the Bible says you read it and not take what a biased website has to say. Religioustolerance.org is a joke that misleads people into making God what they want him to be.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice Of Reason
    As far as the abortion issue goes there is no God that supports the murder of the innocent unborn in the womb........
    So, how many unborn babies did your God drown in Genesis? Talk about hypocrisy.

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