Think about this. If a man wants to have sex with a woman, he will more likely do so if he knows the woman can just get an abortion. If abortion remains legal, more men will continue to use women as simply sex objects. The man will have no responsibility, as even if "safer sex" practices do not work, abortion is always the back-up escape plan.

If abortion were illegal, men would not be as likely to use women as objects for sexual pleasure. Why? If the woman gets pregnant, the man will have to help pay for the child. Unless he really loves the woman and wants to be with her, he will have absolutely no desire to pay for a child for any portion of his life.

It takes both a man and a woman to have a child. Over 90% of the time both are willing to have sex, and nothing is forced upon the woman. Only 1% of pregnancies are a result of rape. The woman can just say NO. The man can resist his temptations like most members of society can.

Abortion makes women sex objects. Without the possibility of a child, men can continue to abuse women and not worry about a new life forming because of it.

__________________
"Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives."
-Ronald Reagan
"Life is a story; if you stay on the same page forever you will never finish it."
"There are days you are the pigeon and days you are the statue."

Let's assume everything you said here is true and logical. Big assumption, but let's go with it. I'm sure you thought it out properly before you posted.

So what?

If legal abortion leads to more sex object treatment, therefore it should be banned?

Because men treating women as "sex objects" is the worst thing in the world, worse than all the negative outcomes that result from outlawing abortion?

Somehow I don't think so.

__________________
He or she who supports a State organized in a military way – whether directly or indirectly – participates in sin. Each man takes part in the sin by contributing to the maintenance of the State by paying taxes.

~ Gandhi

Do men really think about abortion when they're thinking about sex?

__________________
Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you do not hurl them at me. Wafa Sultan

“War is an American way to teach geography,” British soldier

No. Abortion is legal, so they don't have to worry about what they do with a woman's sexuality. If they knew abortion was not an option, they would probably think twice before having sex with any woman they wanted.

__________________
"Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives."
-Ronald Reagan
"Life is a story; if you stay on the same page forever you will never finish it."
"There are days you are the pigeon and days you are the statue."

So then, you think that the threat of criminalizing abortion will decrease sexual activity.

In earlied posts you condemned wome's "lust".

We gather that you think sexuality is a BAD thing. Why?

Are you the avatar of either Saul of Tarsus or Augustine of Hippo?

Not necessarily. It will decrease the amount of pregnancies in my opinion. More people will use condoms if they know that abortion is no longer an option. There might be a slight decrease in sexual activity in people not wanting to risk the failure of condoms.

Not just women's lust, but the lust of men as well. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having sex. Sexuality is a good thing. I am not sure where you got the idea I thought otherwise. No one yet has argued the main point of this topic. I am waiting for somebody to prove me wrong. Abortion degrades a woman's sexuality. A man can go to a woman and say, "have sex with me." The woman would reply "I dont want to have a child" The man would respond "just get an abortion." Does the man in that case care about the woman, or just care about sex? He certainly does not care about the purpose of sex to create children.

__________________
"Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives."
-Ronald Reagan
"Life is a story; if you stay on the same page forever you will never finish it."
"There are days you are the pigeon and days you are the statue."

Lak,

You're not sure where I get the idea that you fear/hate sex?

Look again; you're the one who calls it lust.

What's wrong with that?

Why shouldn't two peole who are attactive to each other have sex?

Who are you to say that, if it results in a pregnancy, that you know better than the pregnant woman how to determine the future of that pregnancy?

What is it that makes you think that your word should be law in the universe?

When did I call sexuality lust? Please find that quote.
What's wrong with lust? Is it right for a man to simply want women for sex? Is that right? Don't women deserve respect for their sexuality? If you cannot see the wrong in men only desiring sex, and nothing else from a woman, you have a serious problem.
People cannot just go have sex with any person they want. They have to make a commitment to care for the child that may result. That is why. Imagine a world where all that matters is sex, and children are devalued? There is nothing wrong with two people having sex, but in doing so they must make the commitment to care for the child that will result from their actions. Its called responsibility. Having an abortion is the easy way out, a path that is provoked by the lack of caring for anyone else but oneself. For both the man and the woman. Should I have had sex with my 16 year old girl friend in high school? Why not? We were both attracted to each other? If that really is your logic, then any sense of morality you may have had is completely lost.
Not the future of the pregnancy, the future of the CHILD. The future of the developing human being who has the opportunity to live, which is better than death before birth can even be achieved. The woman made a choice to have sex with a man. She should have known that a child would be a possible outcome. If she did not want to have the child, all she had to do was practice abstinence. Then there would be no issue of what to do with an unwanted pregnancy.
My word as law? Why should any murder be illegal? The reason is because people come to understand what is fundamentally right and what is inherently wrong. People who rob banks often need money to support their families. But it is not right to rob a bank. Other people are involved. Abortion is similar to a robbery, but the life of the baby is stolen instead of money.

I understand where you are coming from. You believe that everyone should be able to choose whether or not they think abortion is wrong. You believe that if a woman thinks abortion is fine, she can go through with it. But that is not what I believe. That is not what millions of Americans believe. We believe that a fetus is a human life. We cannot rest our consciences until that life is protected, just as all human life deserves to be protected. You have not been able to acknowledge that.

Despite all that I have said, nobody has even made an argument against the point made in my initial post. I can only assume that one does not exist.

__________________
"Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives."
-Ronald Reagan
"Life is a story; if you stay on the same page forever you will never finish it."
"There are days you are the pigeon and days you are the statue."

Lakrite:

What if a woman simply wants men for sex?

Same thing applies to women treating men as sex objects. But this topic is more focused on the men treating women as sex objects aspect, and to be honest men often use women only for sex more than a woman would use a man for sex.

__________________
"Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives."
-Ronald Reagan
"Life is a story; if you stay on the same page forever you will never finish it."
"There are days you are the pigeon and days you are the statue."

Oh dear god. Lakrite just may have surpassed Archie as the new king of the nonsense-to-space ratio.

Yes, you should, because you clearly haven't.

Please show evidence for this claim. This is not an issue of "think about it"; this is a positive claim that needs to be supported with recorded data.

Nonsense. No legislation can change personal views, especially views that are related only tangentially to the legislation.
Or, show that I'm wrong by providing evidence. You know, that pesky connection to reality that you seem to be missing?

This is like saying that skydiving with a parachute is irresponsible because the skydiver has a backup 'chute.

Wrong. See, this is where it helps to check some numbers. (You know, that reality thing again.) In most places where abortion is illegal, abortion rates are comparable to places where abortion is legal. Laws don't tend to have as large an effect as you seem to wish. People who want an abortion just go to where they can get one legally, or they get one illegally, meaning in a non-regulated, dangerous, and often unhealthy way.

Ask me for data. Go ahead. Follow the request by posting data that support your point.

__________________
Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Biochemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds that crawl.

Tell me, did men ever worry about abortion when they were thinking about sex before abortion was legal?

__________________
Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you do not hurl them at me. Wafa Sultan

“War is an American way to teach geography,” British soldier

Congratulations on once again basing your arguments on the personal attack fallacy.
Every issue involves people "thinking". Don't tell me you don't think about anything?
You want recorded data? Well I can supply it. There are numerous ways to support this claim, I will start out with the following:

Men having sex with women will produce children. With abortion legal, abortion thus becomes another option. So let us review the statistics of the number of births in the United States during the years 1960 and 2005.

According the the census of 1960, there were 4,257,850 live births.

According to 2005 data, there were 4,138,349 live births.
In 2005 there were also 1,200,000 abortions.
Add that up and you get roughly 5,338,349 pregnancies in the year 2005, and 4,257,850 pregnancies during the year 1960. This evidence supports the claim that men are more likely to get a woman pregnant if abortion is an option.

Except that backup parachute is intended to save the life of the man. Abortion is intended to end the life of a developing human.
To further disprove that illogical comparison:
A couple practicing safe sex does so because they do not want to get pregnant. When the goal not to get pregnant fails, they simply end the result of the pregnancies as the back door.
A man skydiving has a parachute because he does not want to get killed. The man is not killed if the parachute fails because he has a backup parachute. The backup parachute allows him to achieve his main goal of living. An abortion does not stop a woman from getting pregnant. But that is simply another strawman argument.
In places were abortion is illegal most laws aren't followed anyway. There will still be people who break the law, but there will be a large number of people who respect it. Show me your statistics, go ahead. You also need to show statistics that prove my claim wrong.

__________________
"Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives."
-Ronald Reagan
"Life is a story; if you stay on the same page forever you will never finish it."
"There are days you are the pigeon and days you are the statue."

Do you mean do did mean every worry about getting a woman pregnant when they were thinking about sex before abortion was legal? It doesn't make sense to ask if men would worry about abortion when it was illegal.

__________________
"Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives."
-Ronald Reagan
"Life is a story; if you stay on the same page forever you will never finish it."
"There are days you are the pigeon and days you are the statue."

Why not? Abortion was a lot more risky and dangerous when it was illegal. What doesn't make sense about it is that either way, abortion exists, and is not a factor in the decision.

__________________
" ... It's not as though he proved anything, he only refuted my evidence. ..." Archangel 04.01.09

" ... this egregiously ignorant christian ... Archangel 03.09.09

“Probably the toughest time in anyone's life is when you have to murder a loved one because they're the devil.”